The Clean Slate Ep. 1 – Mary Torrado

trista:
Today's topic is all about control. The control that you as a manager or business owner think you have over your facilities, buildings, and other assets. The control you actually don't have. And how you can gain control should you need more by taking a different approach to your facilities management style. In today's economic climate, the knee-jerk response is to pull work in-house. and can oversee, well, everything. But nothing can be further from the truth. Here to break all that down for us is Mary Turado. Welcome, Mary.

trista:
Mary is Vice President of Strategic Operations and Customer Experience at OpenWorks Facilities Management, headquartered in Phoenix, Arizona. Here she has worked for large facilities management brands and has more than 15 years of facility management experience. She is a wealth of knowledge about all things in the biz. And today we're going to chat with her about this idea of control. Many executives and managers want to oversee the day to day of their building's tasks. And they want to believe that they are in control. Mary, have you experienced this idea of control in the past?

Mary Torrado:
Thanks for watching!

trista:
Can you give me some examples of the control at the director level that leaders think they have?

Mary Torrado:
Yeah, absolutely. Excited to have this chapter with you, Trista. So let's just peel that back a little bit regarding control. I mean, everyone likes control. Not everyone, but a lot of people like control of different facets of their work environment, especially through the management lens. There is a concept that the more control you have, the results that you'll obtain. So let's go through a little bit of those items of what truly is control and what is the misconception from the facility standpoint for in-house services versus outsourcing. So depending on the type of level of service needed and the type of industry that an is often not their core vertical, right? Because if you're

trista:
great.

Mary Torrado:
talking about entertainment, logistics, transportation, different facets in the different industry facilities, it's not their core vertical. And it's not an area that they have necessarily the expertise on. They're not the expert service matter on this component. And so because if they are not the expert matter on this this leads to an influx of added cost. For example, when you look at in-house, in aspect of employment, you think about just the employee doing the service. But what it's often not taken into consideration is the other added layers of that employee, right? Who is going to Who's going to make sure that that employee is compliant with OSHA standards? And also from that management standpoint, who is also not only from training and delivery perspective, who is helping ensure that if that employee does not come in, who is backfilling for that position? So there is added components into the layers and layers, layers of that. So let's say that you have a perfect world where individuals don't have issues come about that they will just not show up for a routine employment shift or what have you. And you have an individual who is fully trained and doesn't require the training and doesn't require all those added layers that needs to go into delivering that. and providing the overall structure. Who is doing checks and balances of that as well. And then

trista:
Do we just,

Mary Torrado:
also.

trista:
do people just put that on HR? Give that to HR, give that to HR to manage.

Mary Torrado:
Give it to HR to manage, but even if you give it to HR, right, you give it to one of your HR directors to fill in the gaps, fill the hiring process and the training process and what have you. There are so many layers involved into actually the costs associated with managing and having that employee. vertical. That is not their core service delivery. It's not the skill set that they have. So they have to learn themselves and then train on it. Then they have to make sure that their process is in place of how do you do the training? How do you make sure that someone is cleaning correctly, updating themselves on the standard practices of cleaning, updating with OSHA compliance, updating with chemical usage? There's so many facets of that. You know, overall in research done, the average amount of total costs on overhead for an employee taken into in-house is around 25% higher than outsourcing it to a company that specifically tailors to that and has, you know, they know what, you know, how to do that, deliver that service. And so it's a lot different. So when going back to the management component, director then to manage those facilities and manage those employees. But that sometimes it's a little too much for a facilities director to take on. So then they have to have a supervisor and that super supervisor may need a lead and so forth and adding on layers and layers of costs and also the time consumption that is involved in making sure that individual set up for success. and equipment, do they know how to do it, do they know how the process works, and so forth. So there is a lot of costs associated to that control aspect, but then when you go back into the actual control component, like even though they have all of that and they have everything zeroed in, what control do they actually have for them having all those individuals versus a company? that there is labor laws, right, taken

trista:
Great.

Mary Torrado:
into consideration. So even if you have all those components that you're doing self-delivery on, what does that control look like? Like, how is that gaining them the desired results by having that sort of control that they seek? Because they have that self-delivery model and they have those employees that they're employing themselves, what happens when they don't get the desired results. And, you know, it goes back to that, like, they don't have the oversight of being there directly when that employee is doing the service. They're relying upon other factors the same way they would rely on an outsourcing group.

trista:
Exactly. And I want to go back to one thing that you said that was really important that I picked up on is They don't they aren't exactly in that vertical. So they are not they are not in that space So commercial cleaning and facilities management, we know is up to a billion dollar industry right now Plus a billion dollar plus right? so I think that there's sometimes this misconception that it's it's as easy as cleaning the toilet. I do that at home. Suzanne at the front desk, she can do that, right? But it's bigger and different. It's its own world, essentially, right?

Mary Torrado:
Yeah.

trista:
So can you talk a little bit about the industry and how it's changed and some of the training, the specific training that folks get, especially if they are a commercial cleaner?

Mary Torrado:
So you're totally right. When individuals think about cleaning, they're like, oh yeah, I do that. I clean at home. It's not a big deal. It's trash. It's restrooms. It's nothing major. It's not rocket science, right? But if you have been in the industry long enough, you know that it's just not that. There are so many components that could be detrimental to a facility that need to be taken into consideration. Not only the cleaning process itself, but the safety of the employees performing the cleaning, and also the safety of whoever is in that facility. Because at times, the cleaning is not done relatively. There is a large portion of cleaning that's being done when individuals are not around. But for a lot of the times, there is cleaning being done when there is individuals in the facility, whether it be visitors, or the employees themselves in that space, it's their safety that needs to be taken into consideration. So the training that is involved in when you become a subject expert matter in it and a company that really hones in on to what it takes to deliver that service, they have to know those skillsets. They have to know the course of how to do the process, but also to be remain compliant. There is a lot of training involved, a lot of courses, a lot of ongoing courses that need to be refreshers, OSHA courses, blood book pathogen courses, so many different chemistry of chemicals, whatnot to mix. I've seen people just think like, the more the merrier.

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
They're mixing all the chemicals and they're like, please don't mix chemicals. like that is,

trista:
It'll

Mary Torrado:
it's

trista:
just

Mary Torrado:
so,

trista:
be stronger, the more the better.

Mary Torrado:
yeah, those fumes, so definitely that's not a good idea. But not only that, it's like, so talking about like the process of cleaning, there are so many things that people don't take into consideration of the process of cleaning, such as, you know, the services to take into consideration. Like, when you are doing it and you're in the industry not to put on what surfaces because it will damage it. So it's not only the visual component of like, yes, this is going to ruin a surface, but then also there's dwell times, there is the difference between cleaning and disinfecting, like how the process needs to be done in a correct manner in order for the surface to be clean. Also taking consideration chemicals day and age, we have a lot of individuals that do have allergies that could be catastrophic for them if the cleaning process wasn't taking a consideration for commercial grade chemicals. I've seen some people that do the cleaning themselves and they think it's as simple as cleaning your own home and they do utilize house cleaning chemicals and individuals that's hard you know, for when they're inhaling that. And there is allergens components to that aspect too, as well.

trista:
I would think

Mary Torrado:
And

trista:
that

Mary Torrado:
also.

trista:
this would be, just to interrupt you there for a second, but I'm just thinking of all the places, as a mom, thinking all the places that you take your children to. There are certain chemicals that should and shouldn't be used around children or people. So using those specific chemicals, you're putting those children at risk, essentially, if you don't know what you're doing.

Mary Torrado:
So like definitely,

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
there is, like that I, you know, I mentioned the mixing of the chemicals, but then also the logic of using chemicals, the harder it is or it's, people use it to destroy it instead of like, hey, how do we prevent this? So

trista:
Right,

Mary Torrado:
they

trista:
right.

Mary Torrado:
try to use more chemicals or stronger ones to destroy things instead of like using this, the process, disinfactant, they do all those things. And I've seen some people that they'll just pour like bleach straight into surfaces. I'm like, do you know

trista:
Thanks for watching!

Mary Torrado:
how irritating that would be to the skin? And

trista:
Step

Mary Torrado:
especially,

trista:
one.

Mary Torrado:
so for kids especially, like that would be a huge, like, you know, they're little ones, they put everything in their mouth or they're crawling on the floor. And those harsh chemicals would be pretty bad They're very soft skinned. They're sensitive

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
and they're little ones. So yeah, taking consideration for those type of environments that is a critical component as well.

trista:
Can you talk a little, thank you for that, and I'm really just envisioning all the places, you know, I've been with my son hoping that, fingers crossed, everything's clean correctly. I know you and I were talking a little bit earlier this week or this month about the show, The Last of Us, and the new flavor of the month, not pathogen, but virus is fungus. labor of the month. And you said to me, you know, all you have to do is just wipe it up. But people think you have to get all over it with basically everything. So can you talk about a little bit what happens when these new viruses, new pathogens keep coming up? How do how do professionals stay on top of that and prevent new ones? Or you can't prevent you know, issues in the future.

Mary Torrado:
Right. So the preventative measures is the constant measures of cleaning being done for a facility that is in line to make sure that we're removing soils, we're cleaning and then disinfecting. It's all about prevention, right? So if you're maintaining the facility the correct way, environment and for the individuals in the facility. Now, you're totally right. It was so funny because you nailed it on the different flavor of the month, because oftentimes people forget or things come up and there's always a scare. We always have something that comes up and you virus. I mean, we saw it with monkeypox. Then now the last of us came up and people were starting to think like, it's a quarter steps a thing, like, you know, can I, can people actually get infected with fungus and like, oh, mold, like, right, like, you know, what happens if we have mold and things like that? So, you know, people get so caught up into the viruses that are around, but essentially we live with, you know, viruses and bacterias and things like that. So it's not the destruction of those it's more of the preventative measures to ensure that we maintain the facility in a safe environment for surface to person contact and things of that nature. So a lot of people have that misconception that you think, oh, let's figure out what chemical is actually going to destroy that pathogen, that infection, that virus. But in reality, by the time there is chemicals that are thing, you know, it takes time to develop that. So instead of making chemicals to kill it, destroy it, or harsher or things like that, it's a lot harsher for the surfaces of the environment. You think about more of like, how do we prevent it? Like, how do we keep the environment in a safe measure? Is the cleaning practices being done consistently in order to ensure that it's always cleaned correctly?

trista:
Right, right. And you mentioned OSHA a couple times when you were speaking. So I'm assuming at any time, any kind of regulating body can come into a place. If you're a warehouse and you're storing food, you have all your different regulatory bodies. So what happens when OSHA or somebody like this comes in and says, you're not in compliance, you're not in compliance, there's a ding, I'm assuming there's a lot of ramifications that could happen that could even up until stopping the entire, the works, the entire process of what a company is doing.

Mary Torrado:
Right, no, absolutely. There is set regulations, and I always say this too, it's like, you know, if you have a favorite restaurant that gets closed because of health and safety concerns, it's kind of like a glaring, and then they reopen and you're like, but how safe are you right now? So it's that aspect. There is always governing bodies that conduct inspections and safety, right? It's not only for the environment, but it's also like, you know, have safety measures. Like anytime someone has permits or whatnot, there is a lot of hoopla's that go into place to get someone accredited to be able to be open because they have to meet certain regulations. There is inspections done for certain facilities in regards to the cleanliness of the facility. Is it health and you know the safety and health of the individuals that are going into that facility taking into consideration. So inspections can vary by different types of verticals and different types of facilities. So, you know, education, medical have different parameters, but they all get inspected, right? And so they do get inspected on not only the cleanliness of the facility, but also on the OSHA compliance. So, you know, if they have, the chemicals are being stored in the facility, how they're being stored, where, you know, it's located, not only like the location of it, people often put chemicals on top of the water heater, or they put them on the floor and you're not supposed to do that, or they don't have labeled on it, so you don't know if that's actually Kool-Aid or if it's Windex and things like that. So it's like those regulatory controls as well, but then also, you know, the cleanliness level of the facility isn't safe for the people involved. If it's at an unsafe level, different types of facilities

trista:
Right. And then I would assume then you're losing a lot of money as you're shut down. So I'm thinking about warehouses, for example, if they're shut down and they're not able to pick and pack the products that they need to get out the door there minute by minute. Every is a dollar out the door that they're just losing out on because they've been shut down.

Mary Torrado:
Oh, yeah, 100% 100% on that because of the fact that it's not only stopping their production. So it's stopping whatever revenue they would have generated that day. But it's also it's a focal point because they rely on customers, right? And so if there were to be shut down, you know, their clients could pull contract and they won't have them as a client and they could lose that revenue for that as a whole not only for that day. a single day of being lost, depending on the type of manufacturing or the distribution center, you know, it could be a port of a hundred of the hundreds of thousands of dollars lost, you know, within a few hours.

trista:
Right, right. One thing that I wanted to bring up is the dreaded COVID word that has been such an issue and over the last couple of years, because it's still here. People are still getting COVID. People are still getting sick, right? But what do you say to the folks who used an outsourced situation during COVID? Because it was serious. People were going to the hospital. So might as well go out outside, right? Let's get the heavy hitters in here. Let's disinfect, let's take care of the COVID. And now that COVID is quote unquote over, or, you know, it hasn't been in the media as much, they can say, all right, let's get rid of those outsource folks and bring our own folks in. What would you say to that when you hear that? How does that, what's your response to that?

Mary Torrado:
Right, I do think that my logic and thinking on that aspect is that, yes, they did. There is a reason that they went outsourcing during that time frame. And again, going back to that, that's not their key core vertical, right?

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
The facilities, the cleaning, all of that, it's not in their realm or in their wheelhouse. to provide that need to their facility and their individuals in those facilities. Now, long-term thinking is, yes, you've done away with that because it's no longer a scare, right? People are living with it, you know, manageable, and it's become an item that now we are okay with as far as like risk is concerned. that what happens when the next thing comes up? What is the plan of, do you take it back outsourcing and do you keep doing that, and see soft active, like take the outsource, insource, outsource, because we don't have the time to keep up with the trends of clumbliness and so forth. Like going back to all the way back pre-COVID, we were all ready, before we even knew about COVID, of like the next step in disinfection of like, you know, what do we do to facilitate measures and risk and control and how to control assessments on the cleanliness level as well. And so we were looking at all of that and putting together actual processes in place and the tools and the chemicals and looking at dwell times and looking at all of that. And then when because we were not thinking about COVID. We were just thinking in a general term, like, how do we make the facilities for our clients better maintained, you know, more cleanliness level? How do we measure that? How do we quantify that? How do we do it? What is the process? What are the steps, you know, for each type of not only the different types of segments of the facilities, but also like the different areas? Like, how do you thoroughly clean a restaurant? room? What are the steps involved in that? How do you thoroughly clean a break room? How do you thoroughly clean an office space or a childcare setting? There's different parameters and cleanliness measures. So given all of that, we were already ahead of the curve to be able to mitigate and help our customers when they needed us the most. But thinking of like customers that have gone back when something else comes up and you need that added resource and help because of the fact that they may not have the time to do the research. They're not, they don't have the time to go and do a seminar all day just to discuss chemicals. You know, and that's

trista:
Right.

Mary Torrado:
what we do. We do take the time to take our seminars, to keep up to date with equipment solutions. And we have so many individuals knowledge on not only core like verticals, but also the process in place. Like how do you do that? And what tools are needed? And how do you do that process? And how do you train on it too? Because training is a huge component of the delivery. So it's

trista:
Great.

Mary Torrado:
also remodifying training material, literature, videos, when you do on, you know, on the job training hands on training, like how do you do that? What is the process for that? Who was doing that? And all those things. So, you know, we, as an individual who's providing that service, we're doing all of that for you.

trista:
Right, right. So now let's circle back to the beginning of our conversation about control. So folks want to believe that they're in control when they have people doing this in-house, but what happens when somebody says to a manager or someone at the C-suite, we should really outsource this. And when somebody gets scared, they don't want to make that decision and say, source. That's a big deal. So what does that look like for a company like OpenWorks or any other company when you're having that conversation or you're having that relationship building time to hand that over? So I'm a business owner. I'm going to be like, here's the keys to my baby. Come in and clean. How do I know what's happening and how do I keep that control? What are some that.

Mary Torrado:
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I do understand where managers or someone who is in charge of that, it's their baby, it's their livelihood, it's their name on the line, should they make the wrong decision to outsource it. And you know, it's it's an important decision, right? That shouldn't be do your homework, do your due process to that who you're going with and understand what you know they're providing, what service they're providing to you. And the nice part, and I've been in a lot of different types of rollouts where we did take clients that were formally in-house to outsource. And it's a scary thing, right? It is. It's totally scary for them for that to happen. And how do they maintain that control? You know, I do say that even if you're outsourcing, you have total control. You have total control because the control that you hold and the power that you hold is your contract, right? Your agreement that this company is agreeing to perform to this standard that you have accepted. You are, they've tailored specifications for your facility, you know, how we're going to do it, when we're going to do it, as far as like, how many times we're going to do it in the facilities. So all of those things, that's the commitment that's tied into that. And, you know, they have the full autonomy to say that, you know, what are some of the levels acceptable or not acceptable for them. and we've done the inception for them and we have managed it all for them. It's nice because of the fact that I love the blossoming relationship, love the communication that we have with them to get them to that point. There is that communication. It's not just like, you know, the cleaner shows up and the individual is there, the employee's there, and all of a sudden it's like, hey, I'm here.

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
It's not that. It's a very long process that's written out in communication with the client. Like these are the target dates. This is when we're gonna do this, by when. And we have all of that written and outlined as far as this is where we're going to hit this target. This is when we're gonna do introductions. We're gonna do a walkthrough. We're gonna do a soft rollout. We're going to phase in certain facilities And then we're also going to make sure that we have all the components in place, right? So emergency contacts, who do we go for what, all the in and outs of the facility. So we learn beforehand everything that we should know, need to know, basis about the facility. So we're making sure that we're setting up the individuals for success, for delivering that service. out and out wide and there is communication flowing through from the company to the client as far as this is what we're doing, this is when we're doing it. And having them a part of that transition, so they're very, very well informed and they know every step of the way what's happening. And so they still maintain a certain level of control of what's happening.

trista:
Yeah, great to know, great to know, because I understand the fear there. You know, it's a big job. And, you know, handing that over to someone else, you know, you go through a lot of interviews when you hire somebody. So having that hands off is a little daunting. But one of the things that I'm wondering, Mary, when I sit here today and I look at all the tech layoffs and the mass layoffs that are happening over and over and over again, that we're seeing, unfortunately, is this idea of, is it a good time to outsource when you're having all these layoffs? Because you may look at, as a director or manager, you may look at that line of, that's going to cost me how much to do this cleaning when I'm also laying off maybe developers or folks who create technology or apps? How can I do Can you kind of look at that and say, this is something that should be done?

Mary Torrado:
Absolutely. So part of, you know, there is that balance of managing the funds and what is the overall arching costs. Like I, I personally, I'm a frugal person, right? I will do stuff on my own at home all the time. You know, if there is a project that I can do, I will

trista:
Yeah.

Mary Torrado:
But there is certain things I do not touch in my home, right? There's things that forever, ever, I will always help source. And one of them is like plumbing, right? I will never touch the plumbing because, you know,

trista:
You

Mary Torrado:
if

trista:
don't want

Mary Torrado:
I

trista:
to

Mary Torrado:
do

trista:
flood.

Mary Torrado:
something, something

trista:
Flood

Mary Torrado:
I

trista:
in

Mary Torrado:
do

trista:
your house.

Mary Torrado:
incorrectly could cost me so much more in the long run, right? Just to save that, that minimal dollar amount up front could ultimately lead me spending a lot of money, you know, over time. And that's the same concept that I think of, like, other things as well. So, like, for example, like cleaning, we were discussing that there is more to cleaning than, you know, just when you think about, like, you know, trash and restrooms. There's a lot more thought and process and implementation put into place for cleaning itself and maintaining the facility, not only from the cleanliness, but as a whole of other things. and landscaping and so many different facets of facilities management. But going back to the cleaning aspect, you know, when you think about that cost associated with that service delivery, it's also not taking into consideration the other costs that you're preventing from happening, right?

trista:
Mmm.

Mary Torrado:
Such as, you know, the liability part. full liability for those services that's taking that stress off the individual's plate and also the cost associated should something happen in correlation with that. You

trista:
like

Mary Torrado:
know, for

trista:
a

Mary Torrado:
example.

trista:
slip or a fall or somebody hurting

Mary Torrado:
Yeah.

trista:
themselves because they're cleaning because it can be a dangerous proposition to clean some of these places.

Mary Torrado:
Yeah, absolutely. It's the mitigation of costs of that, but it's also like, you know, not only like those, you know, slipping and falling is one of the major components that could occur from someone cleaning and someone, you know, not seeing that someone just mucked the floor and falling because, and that there was no proper signage and things like that, but also like what happens is, you know, like we talked about, you know, if the measures weren't put into place or that facility is shut down, that is the hard costs associated with the ripple effect that occurred. Or let's say, you know, the individual didn't handle chemicals correctly and someone became injured. That's a cost for the facility that they'll have to take, you know, not including fines and other things that they would incur. So those added costs is far more outweighing than that cost of outsourcing the company that you're going to be needing those services for.

trista:
Great. I just have one more question, because I think we covered just about everything. But my question is, so say I am a company, or I have a building, and I have pest control, I have HVAC, I have landscaping, and now I have cleaning. Those are three separate vendors that someone has to organize and manage. Or is there a place, is that what OpenWorks does? take everything and just manage all the vendors. What's the benefit

Mary Torrado:
Absolutely.

trista:
of that?

Mary Torrado:
The benefit is that as a facilities individual or even like the individual that is managing everything for that building or multiple buildings that say, let's take out, you know, it's not one building, it's an individual that has been put in charge of like 20 locations,

trista:
Okay.

Mary Torrado:
20, 30, whatever the count may be, but they have to then organize all those vendors, they to run through all the paperwork, they have to run through the costs, they have to run through compliance, and if something occurs or they need something that is proactive measure, then they're trying to figure out like, okay, who do I call for this item and going through and trying to keep themselves organized where OpenWorks does that for them. It's one individual to call for all the services. So it's, you know, and if they have multiple locations, Who does the landscaping for Perryville versus Glendale? You know, a lot,

trista:
That's

Mary Torrado:
trying

trista:
a lot.

Mary Torrado:
to dress them. Yeah, so it's just one company that they would go to and say, look, I need this, this, and this for all these items. We have an important visitor coming in this time. I'd like to have this tree planted or I would like to have the grounds maintained level and I want certain services completed and you know, just the logistics of it. We do it all and then they wouldn't have to think about the differentiators of like who's doing what and all that that encompasses not only from possibly from that's outside of what they normally have to do in a day. So it's the stress reliever of being able to do that and encompass all of those services for them.

trista:
Right. It sounds like it's taking the burden off of them and putting it somewhere else. So the people who know what they're actually doing can manage all that. And that person is freed up to do something else. Or maybe that money can go to other enhancements in the building, security, whatnot. So it sounds like it's a good choice when I listen to you talk about it.

Mary Torrado:
Right, absolutely. Yeah, like, give me all your problems. Get them to me. We'll

trista:
Mary

Mary Torrado:
do

trista:
will solve

Mary Torrado:
it.

trista:
them all. Well, is there anything that you think we didn't cover when it comes to outsourcing or helping places make that decision of should they go in-house, should they go outsource? You know, anything that we didn't cover that would help them make that decision.

Mary Torrado:
Absolutely. I do think like, you know, thinking outside the box, going through the list of pros and cons for, you know, as far as opening or opening their horizon, especially like if they've never done it before, as far as outsourcing or whatnot, just know things that they're used to doing as a whole for their organization, like taking a step back and looking at it. that I could be doing for my organization. Is outsourcing a solution? If it is, like those added benefits that we discussed is something that may be not being taken into consideration nowadays as far as the risk, the liability,

trista:
Mm-hmm.

Mary Torrado:
the costs, not taking into consideration like the hard costs of different supplies and materials, but also the labor costs and associated management of the labor being done itself. So those other costs not taken into consideration. And overall the time, right? The time that they could be spent doing something for their organization to add more to whatever they are, their core knowledge and their expertise are in order to help and maintain their organization that they're spending on other things that they could be putting on someone else. There are so many multiple facets for them to review and take a look at what should or can't work for them. It's just taking a step back and going through all those multiple avenues and looking at from a different lens as far as what can work for them.

trista:
Right. Okay, great. I don't think I have any other questions today. I'm sure more will come up, but I want to thank you very much for joining me today on the Clean Slate. And you have been very informative as far as should a place choose in-house cleaning or outsourcing. And it's been quite illuminating. So

Mary Torrado:
Thanks for watching!

trista:
talking about all the risk that you can't see and you kind of So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it

Mary Torrado:
Now it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Trista.

trista:
Thank you.

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